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"Pool Heater Information"
There are
many choices & circumstances should be considered.
The Pool & Spa Informational Website
askalanaquestion.com |
Keeping The Water Warm
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Scroll down to browse
through some archived SWIMMING POOL questions and answers.
Please access the Pool Problems Page and other links, at the top of
every page, for additional information.
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Pool
heaters represent a considerable investment and must be properly protected from
the negatives effects of corrosion and poor water chemistry. Improper
installation of a chemical feeder can lead to heater damage. Deposits of
scale, due to excessive calcium hardness or poor water chemistry, can reduce the
efficiency of the heater, by lining the heat exchanger with scale deposits.
There are several types of pool heating systems available including:
fossil fueled heaters, electric heat pumps and solar heating systems.
Individual pool circumstances can dictate the system's requirements and point to
a best choice. Operating costs and environmental considerations should be
factored into the selection process, as only solar heating systems are virtually
cost-free and pollution-free.
Clicking on the underlined
and highlighted "keywords" or "catch phrases," in the
archived answers will give you access to additional information on that topic or
product.
Please refer to the Glossary, if there are terms or phrases that require
explanation.
For an alphabetized listing
of the entire contents of the website, use the
Table of Contents link, on top of
every page.

( Click on the Pictures,
for more information.)
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More information about Solar Heating Systems for Residential or Commercial
Aboveground and Inground Pools can be found on the
SMARTPOOL, INC. Preview Page in the "Pools
& Equipment" Product Information Section. Links are available to
connect you to their website.
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►
Heater Operating Costs?
Living in the Daytona area of
Florida, I just had an inground fiberglass pool installed and love it. I'm
wondering about how much a year it would cost to run a natural gas heater. It is
a 12' x 28' X 4.5 ft. deep pool. Thank you for any info or suggestions.
Christopher R., Florida, 9/28/2008
I
don't have access to that type of information. You should direct the question
to the local gas supplier or a gas heater contractor. In addition to the cost
o f natural gas and where, in the country, you are located the individual
factors of pool exposure, desired water temperature and whether or not a cover
will be used have to be considered. An
automatic safety cover
can reduce heater costs by up to 70%. A gas heater may not be the most
economical - check into a
heat
pump. Heating costs can be reduced or controlled by employing a pool
automation device.
Want a FREE source of heat? A
Solar Pool Heating System can run
off your existing filtration system pump and can raise the water temperature up to
10ºF. Good luck and I hope that I have been helpful.
Sincerely. Alan Schuster,
9/28/2008
►
Heat Pump
Practicality?
I am looking into
adding a heater to my inground pool. I see a lot of material concerning
heat pumps. Are they really practical for pools. I live in Vero
Beach, Florida. Thank you.
Barbara F., Vero
Beach, FL, 8/13/2004
As a matter of
fact,
heat pumps are very practical, especially in the sunbelt. In your
location it should work out very well. There is a practical, if not physical limit, as to how much a heat pump can do in terms of raising the
temperature. Check to see what that limit is and consider if you want to
use the pool all year. It wouldn't be practical for year round use in New
York, for example. In New York it performs very well during the normal
season and would be well suited towards extending both ends of the typical
swimming season. In your area, it should be able to perform
virtually all year. But, check it out to make sure before committing
to a purchase. If you are interested in reducing operating costs, you
might consider using a
pool safety cover. These cover reduce evaporation,
keep the heat in and provide safety for animals and kids. But, check it out to make sure before committing to a
purchase. Good luck and I hope that I was helpful.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 8/13/2004
►
Efficiency Concerns?
What is the most
efficient way to run a pool heater in South Florida? Is it more
economical to turn off the heater at night? Or should it be simply lowered or
kept at the temperature for swimming. Also what is the recommended
temperature to heat a pool? We can't agree. I like it at 87 to 90.
He likes it at 82 to 84. We do not have a solar/pool blanket. Would
this help by keeping the temperature up? Also how long does it take to
heat up the water. if it's turned off every night w/o a pool blanket? If
we do get a solar pool blanket, how can it easily be taken on & off?
Thanks.
Bev, Florida,
12/22/2008
Lots of
questions. Unfortunately, they all don't have answers. Most heaters
and filtering systems are not run 24/7. Heating the water for the
overnight period, only increases the heat loss. I would shut the heater
down prior to the last use of the pool and start the cycle again, a few hours
prior to the first use of the day. The later in the morning - the better.
You might as well have the Sun on your side. Temperature is an individual
matter. It is what you like! Maybe even what he likes. Why
not compromise on 85°F?
A solar blanket will positively reduce heating costs. How long it takes to
raise the water 1° will depend upon the heater type, size, water temperature,
Sun exposure, wind, etc. Your heater instruction manual might provide the
information. The water will heat up quicker with a solar blanket on.
A roller system helps make a solar blanket less unwieldy. The easiest way
to cover a pool is with an
automatic pool cover. It can be done
at the push of a button. For more on this product go to
www.coverpools.com
I hope that the information proves helpful.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 12/22/2008
►
Where
Should The Heater Go?
We have an inground pool with
an chlorinator (uses 7 oz. tablets) and a DE filter. The chlorinator is
hooked in, just after the filter. We are planning to add an electric heat
pump and are
having a dispute as to where it should go. Can you explain the proper
heater placement and settle the dispute. Feuding in Virginia.
Marty B., Chesepeake, VA,
6/25/2004
There's nothing
to argue about! Put
the chlorinator after the heat pump or you could destroy the copper/copper alloy heat
exchanger.
The chlorinator must be last in line.
The chlorine, in the chlorinator, is acidic in nature and could damage the
copper heater core, if placed before the heater. Placement of the
chlorinator at the end will result in warm water passing through the unit.
You may have to throttle back the settings on the chlorinator, in order to slow
down the rate of chlorine addition. This is easier than replacing the
heater! I personally know of someone, that had a heater installed
by a plumber (unfamiliar with pools) and he installed it after the chlorinator:
the heater did not last the season! You should be able to confirm this,
by referring to the heater manufacturer's installation instructions. And
don't forget a check valve between the heat pump and the chlorinator.
Information on this can be found in the archives. Enjoy
the warm water.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 6/25/2004
►
Do-It-Yourself
In-Ground Solar
Heating?
We are interested in
installing a Do-It-Yourself Solar Heating system for our 16 X 30 inground pool
but do not have a lot of money to spend. Someone told me that we can install a
system ourselves by using black tubing and running it around the roof. Do you
have any instructions on how we can do this?
Brenda G., 5/3/2005
In
theory, if you ran the line from the filter through a length of black pipe,
exposed to Sunlight, it would pick up heat. Just running pipe around the
roof will not create enough surface area to make a meaningful difference.
Solar heater do not just use black pipe - they use thin cells to increase
the surface area, making heat exchange meaningful and efficient. Doing
what you are suggesting will cause you to spend money without much of a return
benefit. That doesn't mean that you can do-it-yourself.
Smartpool
offers the Sunheater line of solar pool heaters that can be installed
easily by a homeowner. It utilizes the same pool pump and requires no
extra electricity to operate. The heat produced really is
free! For more information visit:
www.smartpool.com
Enjoy the season and I hope that I have been helpful.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 5/3/2005
►
Solar Heating Alternatives?
What a great website! I live on
Long Island and we just got a brand new inground pool (16x34). Do have any info
on Solar Sun Rings for heating an inground pool? Do they work? Do they work
better than a regular solar cover? Thanks so much.
Melissa H., long Island, NY,
6/2/2007
Solar
rings help, but not as much as a solar cover that fully covers the surface.
Evaporation is the main source of heat loss and a full-sized solar cover
will work better. However, the rings are a lot easier to handle. The
new
SolarPill
is even easier. Just add it to the skimmer and it forms a mono-molecular
layer that helps retard evaporation. Better yet, would be a solar heater.
Smartpool offers several models, that you can easily install yourself. Use it with
the SolarPill can you can get even better results. Unlike fossil fuel
heaters, sunshine is free! The
Sunheater Solar
Heating Systems
do not require an additional pump or add to your pool's electrical usage
bill.
I hope that you will find this information helpful.
Sincerely. Alan Schuster, 6/2/2007
►
Above-Ground Solar
Heating?
Do the above
ground pool solar heaters (like Sunheater) really work and are the worth the
money and time to install? How much do they really raise the temperature?
Thanks for you help.
Bill,
5/19/2009
Solar heat
absolutely works! And even better is the fact that the fuel is free! With
the
Sunheater Solar Heating System for above-ground pools, you use the regular
pool pump, so there is no additional cost for electricity. The Sunheater
product can be easily installed, by yourself. A temperature rise of 10 degrees
or more can be gained, depending upon weather conditions and location.
With fuel prices going up daily, this may be the
only affordable way to heat an above ground pool.
To maximize the benefits of
the Sunheater system, operate the pump during daylight hours. Using a
product to retard evaporation, such as the
SolarPill, will help retain the
higher water temperature. I hope that this information
will make for warmer water.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 5/19/2009
►
Economics?
It seems
like a Heat-pump type water heater or the salt generator unit, we were thinking
of, for an inground system is not so useful for an above ground pool. The cost
of the additional systems is way more than the pool itself. Are they worth it?
Martin P.,
2/22/2004
It would
be difficult to justify spending more on the
heat pump, than on the
above ground pool. Heat pumps are very efficient, but how much is warm water worth? In addition to
the purchase cost, there is still the electrical expense. Why not consider
solar
heating? The initial cost can be very modest and, thereafter,
it's free! For more information go to:
www.smartpool.com
Used in conjunction with a solar blanket, it can really make a big difference,
depending upon your location and the sunshine level. A
salt
chlorination system will help offset the initial cost, by reducing
the amount of chemicals needed to maintain proper pool water quality. Salt
chlorinators are convenient and will help keep your pool water in better
balance, with less effort. Both products
will make your pool ownership experience more enjoyable! I hope that the
information provided will prove helpful.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 2/22/2004
►
Propane Or Natural
Gas?
Your website is very helpful,
thank you for making it available. We are in Canada and purchasing a
18'x32' inground straight back kidney pool and I have a few unanswered questions:
Which type of Pool Heater is more efficient? Propane or Natural Gas? Pros
and Cons on each? Should we get a bottom drain in our pool?
Thank you very much.
Debbie, Canada, 5/16/2006
Natural gas
should be more convenient. Other than the major consideration would be the
operating costs and that will depend on local energy costs. Discuss this
with the gas and propane suppliers. You left out another good choice:
a
heat pump. It operates on electricity and
is both clean and convenient. Again, local energy costs needs to be
discussed with the contractor or utility. Adding an
automatic pool safety cover can make a huge
difference in heating costs. A bottom drain will certainly help you keep
the pool cleaner and will help to distribute the heat more effectively. I
hope that this information will prove helpful.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 5/16/2006
►
Above Ground Solar
Heating?
Is solar heating practical for
an above ground pool in North Carolina? Thanks.
Fred H., Fayetteville, NC,
10/2/2003
It is
practical and after the initial start up cost it is free. There are
relatively inexpensive do-it-yourself
solar pool heaters that can raise
the water temperature by as much as 10 degrees F, during ideal weather.
Using with a solar blanket will increase the effectiveness. I hope
that I have been helpful.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 10/2/2003
►
Heater Longevity?
Alan, I
like your site. Can you tell me if there is a rule of thumb for how long
a pool heater should last? I have a unit that is about 13 years old.
Thanks!
Mike,
3/29/2004
I doubt that there is such a thing
as a rule of thumb for heater longevity. Some heaters are destroyed by
improper chemical maintenance and don't last a season. Others can grow old
gracefully, if proper conditions and maintenance are maintained. Heater
efficiency is another matter! Are you getting the best value for the
money being spent? I really can't answer the
questions with any specifics and suggest that you discuss the matter with a
heater contractor or your local fuel supplier. Have you ever considered
Solar
Heating? The fuel is free, it operates off the existing pool
pump and can be very modest in cost.
I hope that the information proves helpful.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 3/29/2004
►
Heater Corrosion?
We have a 4 yr old gunite
pool that when we opened the second year it had a brown ring around it. It
will not come off with scrubbing. Also, our pool is white plaster that looks
light blue now with white scrubbed spots, where it looks bleached out, is this
a stain that we can get out. You also mentioned that you do not like the
chlorine tablets in the filter? What manner of chlorinating do you recommend. Thanks.
Mary, 4/27/2004
To better answer your
question, I need to know if you have a heater?
Alan, 4/27/2004
Yes, we do have a heater.
Mary, 4/27/2004
You read that
I don't like chlorine tablets in the skimmer. Unfortunately, now you know
why. Chlorine tablets are acidic and can create the type of chemistry that
can slowly destroy the copper heater core.
Based on the presence of the blue coloring on the
white plaster and even the brown water line, it seems a virtual certainty that
this is the result of copper corrosion. Copper will dissolve in acidic
water that contains chlorine!
Before you do anything else, take the tablets out of the skimmers and add a
double dose of a quality metal treatment. Check the pH and TA. If
you want some confirmation have the water tested for copper. Hopefully,
you may not have destroyed the heater. If you want to use chlorine
tablets, use a feeder that is plumbed inline, after the heater and is separated
by a check valve. If you want a chlorine pool, that will not produce
acidic conditions, you should consider a
salt chlorinator.
To remove the staining, it may be necessary to lower the pH to about 6.0.
If possible, bypass the heater. If this is not possible, add
chlorine neutralizer and discharge all of the chlorine. To help speed up
stain removal add a couple of pounds of oxalic or ascorbic acids, keep the
filter running and use the scrub brush. A day or two at these acidic
conditions, should make a noticeable difference. So long as there is no
chlorine in the water, the heater is unaffected. I hope that this
information will prove helpful.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 4/27/2004
► The Solar Heating Option?
I live in sunny Yuma AZ. I am
in the process of buying an in ground pool, 14,000 gallons. How I can heat my
pool using the sun's energy?
Jim S., Yuma, AZ 4/26/2008
There are few places, in the
U.S., better suited for solar heating. All that Sun!
Smartpool has a line of
Sunheater Solar
Heating Products
that would be perfect. It even uses the existing pool pump, so there is no
additional electrical cost involved.
Adding
The Circulator
is an inexpensive accessory, that will help to better distribute the heat and
make the temperature more uniform, by eliminating dead zones. I hope that
this helps keep you in warm water.
Sincerely. Alan Schuster, 4/26/2008
► The Heater Died?
I have a heater which is just about 8 months old and has
died!. The manufacturer is refusing to cover it saying the chemicals were
off, causing corrosion on the heat exchanger. The chemicals have run just
about the same, since prior to the heater being installed and the installer
did not check the water chemicals prior to installation. People are telling
me that there should have been an anti corrosion check valve installed.
However, the manufacturer is saying it doesn't need one. Almost every other
heater, I have checked with, does suggest, if not require one. Is
there any information you can help me with?
Marcia P., 1/30/2008
I don't know if this
particular heater requires a check valve. Unless you are using a trichlor
feeder, placed after the heater, the check valve should not be an issue.
The feeder should never be placed before the heater, under any
circumstances. Trichlor is acidic and acidic conditions, with
chlorine present, will lead to copper corrosion. I have no way of knowing
if you subjected the heater to the corrosive conditions, that lead to the
heater failure. However, if was the cause of the problem, there
should be copper present, in the pool water. Have the water tested for
copper. If present, corrosion is very likely the cause of the problem. No
copper, could mean that the problem is not due to corrosion. Could a check
valve have prevented this problem? I don't know if this heater is
different, but a check valve makes sense, in most installations.
If you
have to replace the heater, think about something better. An
AquaCal Heat Pump
will be more economical to operate and has a corrosion-resistant, titanium
heat exchanger. For more information go to:
www.aquacal.com
Adding
The Circulator
helps to better distribute the heat, by dramatically improving the
circulation. Watch the
video and see how it works! I hope that this information will be helpful.
Sincerely. Alan Schuster, 1/30/2008

The Circulator: circulation boosting accessory
|
Click the
image for product and ordering information. |
►
A Better Choice?
Thanks for your help Alan. We did
exactly what you suggested and the pool was back to its normal clear blue
water self the next morning. I do though another question for you.
We are on city water, so there is no way that the water we were using to
fill the pool had the metal in it. I took a look at all my pool
equipment and my heater that is on the pool is a gas heater and is 8 years
old. I took off the cover to the heater and he inside is all rusted
and the piping and everything is made out of cast iron. My
question to you is, should I disconnect the heater from the pool until I can
get a new one because it might be dumping more and more metal into the pool?
Also what brand of heater would be best to get to replace this old one?
Thanks.
Angelo D., 5/1/2007
The water passes through the copper
pipes and not what you see inside of the heater. It may be rusted under the
cover, but that doesn't contact the water. You could have caused
corrosion, to the copper pipes, by having a low pH, over extended periods.
The addition of the metal treatment, should prevent more discoloration, but
your heater could be on its last legs.
I would look into an
AquaCal heat pump.
It will cost less than fossil fuel heaters to operate and is cleaner.
It is also available with a titanium heat exchange for added life and
corrosion resistance. Heat pumps are
an excellent way to go.
The Circulator helps to better
distribute the heat, by dramatically improving the circulation.
Watch the
video
and see how it helps eliminate differences in water temperature!
To avoid a repetition, make sure the chlorinator is
last in line. Chemical chlorinators should be separated from the
heater by a check valve, to prevent corrosive backflow. Good luck,
Sincerely. Alan Schuster, 5/1/2007
►
Should It Be
Replaced?
I just purchased a home with a
pool. The pool company has told me that the pool heater and motor have rusted
through and to me they looked terrible. But, how do I know
this for sure? Is there anything that I should particularly be looking for?
Please email me back as soon as possible. I'd really appreciate it.
Teri W., 4/30/2005
I don't
doubt that they look "terrible." The bottom line is, do they work?
If not, they probably need to be replaced, but I am not sure that that is for me
to say. I am not there to look at it and I am not an expert on this type
of equipment. You don't want to throw good money after bad. Pumps
and heaters do not last forever. I would hazard a guess that if
you replaced the heater with a
heat pump, you would realize a huge energy
savings over the life of the heater. Visit
www.autopilot.com
for information on a quality heat pump. Pump motors are not the most
expensive piece of pool equipment and you might be better off replacing it.
The only other suggestion that I can make is to try and determine the cause of
the corrosion and rusting. Was it poor maintenance, corrosive water
chemistry or both? There is no sense in repeating the past. Good
luck with the pool.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 4/30/2005
►
Tablets In The
Skimmer?
Just had an
inground pool installed with a heater. We were given a "start
up" package of Stabilized quick tabs (dissolve in 15 minutes, providing 59%
of available chlorine) and was told by installer that we should use only these
tabs daily and place directly in skimmer because of the heater. I
have seen on your site that the slow-dissolving tabs should not be placed in
skimmer, but I wondered what other effective chlorinating options I have? Is
a chlorinator the way to go, installed after the heater, or are these quick tabs
just as effective? Thanks.
Chris, 6/2/2003
The product that
you are referring to is not slow-dissolving trichlor. It is a blend of
trichlor and soda ash. This results in a fast dissolving tablet that is
relatively neutral. Placing this type of tablet, in the skimmer, will not
have the same negative impact on the heater. However, if the pool turns
acidic, it will have a corrosive effect on the heater. Adding chlorine
through the skimmer is never the best way to add chlorine.
This
type of tablet cannot be used in a built-in chlorinator. Placing these
tablets in an enclosed chlorinator could result in a explosion! Only trichlor
tablets can be used in an enclosed chlorinator. If you want to use an
inline chlorinator, you must use trichlor tablets or sticks.
The chlorinator should be last in line, after the heater, and must be installed
according to the manufacturer's instructions. I hope that I have been
helpful.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 6/2/2003
►
How Can
Acid Dissolve Copper?
At the beginning of
the season, I had my water tested and amongst other things the dealer found a
small amount of copper. I told him that I never used a copper algaecide.
I only use the Polyquat Type. Because I have a heater and have a
chlorinator with slow-dissolving tablets, he suggested that the copper came from
having acidic conditions for a period of time. The water was treated and
no problems resulted. My question is this. I'm no chemist, but I
remember back in junior high school, we put a penny and a nail in strong acid
and only the nail was attacked. If that is the case, how does acidic
swimming pool water dissolve copper in a heater? Continuing my schooling.
Thanks.
Shelly, B.,
Stony Brook, NY, 7/2/2004
Some memory.
The teacher must have made a real impression on you. It is true that a
copper penny will not dissolve in acids like hydrochloric or sulfuric, dilute or
concentrated. However, a copper penny will dissolve in acids that are
oxidizing agents. Your teacher might have demonstrated this by placing the
penny in a nitric acid solution.
Hypochlorous acid is the active
form of chlorine and it is an oxidizing agent. It, therefore, can and will
slowly dissolve copper, if the pH of the pool water drops into the acidic range.
Evidently, for some period of time, the pH in your pool was below 7.0 and this
resulted in some heater corrosion. The chlorine product that you are using
will lower the pH, as will acid rain and bathers. This will require regular
water testing and pH adjustments. Your dealer did a good job and probably
saved you from a bigger problem. I hope that today's "lesson"
was successful. Enjoy the season.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 7/2/2004
►
pH And Copper
Corrosion?
Recently
after a new replaster job, it was necessary for the pool contractor to give the
finish an acid wash. We turned off our equipment and they added large doses of
Acid that cleaned the pebble plaster. The pool people returned a second time
and added more acid to finish a few places. After about a week total time they
returned the third time and added a bag or so of Soda Ash to raise the pH?
(counter act the acid) At this time we started the pumps and ran it for a good
6 hours. Then it ran for the next three days as per normal schedule which is
about 4 hours a day. My normal pool person informed me on the fourth day that
the acid level was still Very high, well above normal and asked if the acid wash
folks had attempted to lower the acid level. I informed him of what had
transpired and he mentioned that a very high acid level could damage the heater.
This is a brand new heater that the contractors also installed. I am hesitant
about putting the pumps on at this time and I have sodium bicarbonate in the
pool to lower the pH. A recent check of pH and Chlorine shows continued HIGH pH
and NO chlorine. I did read a question on your site regarding a similar instance
and you mentioned, for damage to happen to the core of the heater, chlorine or
bromine would need to be present. Along with the new remodel we had a salt
system that has been working great and providing the chlorine. However, after
several days of no chlorine making, the chlorine level is obviously zero.
Should I feel safe to turn the pumps on and turn the chlorinator off so I can
circulate the sodium bicarbonate within the pool and lower the pH? Thanks.
Mark P., Irvine, CA, 2/23/2005
If the heater core is made of copper or copper alloy, it could be damaged
by the presence of chlorine and the maintaining of low pH conditions.
Keeping the pH in the normal 7.2-7.6 range will prevent corrosion of copper
parts.
Either you are stating the chemical names incorrectly or you are wasting your
time. Sodium bicarbonate will not lower your pH. It will raise the
total alkalinity and move the pH slightly towards 8.0. If your pH is too
high, you must add acid.
Salt chlorine generators
can tend to raise the pH or too much soda ash might have been added. What
you need is acid to optimize the pH! Before you turn on the chlorinator,
I suggest that you add a double dose of a quality metal treatment, in order to
help prevent staining, due to metals in the source water of copper corrosion
that might have occurred. I would add another dose monthly or whenever new
water is added. At the very least it will help keep the salt chlorine
generator electrode plates cleaner. Wait a few hours before turning on the
chlorinator. I doubt that any harm was done to the heater. I hope
that I have been helpful.
Sincerely. Alan Schuster,
2/23/2005
►
Something
Other Than Copper?
I recently destroyed
my pool heater, as a result of corrosion. I was putting the 7 oz. tablets
in the skimmer and it seems that the copper was corroded by the chlorine.
I am not sure that I want to risk another heater. How can I avoid risking
a repeat? It was an expensive lesson. Keeping my cool.
Irving S., Staten
Island, NY, 8/2/2004
The copper
heater core was not "corroded" by just the chlorine. It takes
the combination of low pH and chlorine to subject copper to corrosion in a
swimming pool. The practice of adding trichlor tablets to the skimmer is
not something that I would ever recommend. Trichlor is very acidic
and can slowly lead to corrosive conditions, if the pH is not properly
maintained at 7.2-7.8.
Installing an in-line chlorinator, after the heater
and last in line, is a better way to add chlorine to the pool. There are
heaters that utilize materials other than copper in the heat exchanger.
Titanium and possibly stainless steel are used in some heaters. In
addition, I believe that there are heaters that contain a chemically inert
coating in the heat exchanger. These materials are less subject to
corrosion. However, for the comfort of bathers and protection of all the
metal underwater surfaces, you should maintain a proper pH. Have you
considered solar heating? In your part of the country, solar heater panels
can be used to extend the season. Solar blankets can be used with all
types of heaters, not only to raise or maintain the water temperature, but to
reduce operating costs. I suggest that you discuss heater options with a
local pool professional, so far as heater choices and cost considerations.
Good luck with your decision.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 8/2/2004
►
Scale
Deposits In A Heater?
I read somewhere
that very high calcium hardness and pH can lead to scale formation and that
scale can form on the underwater surfaces, including in the heater. My
water has over 500 PPM of calcium hardness. I have a solar heater. I don't
see any real evidence of scale. Every once in a while, I get cloudy water.
Is there something I can do to avoid a potential problem? Please help.
J. M.,
6/9/2004
A calcium
hardness level of 500 PPM can definitely lead to scale formation and it can take
place in your
solar heater or any other type for
that matter. If so, it will reduce
the heater efficiency, by acting as a form of insulation.
Make sure that you keep the pH closer to 7.2, than to 7.6. Try and lower
the total alkalinity to within 80-120 PPM, if practical. Stop all use of products containing calcium.
Add a quality Mineral Treatment, in order to help sequester the calcium, on a
regular basis. This treatment can actually slowly dissolve scale deposits,
over a period of time. There's nothing in your letter that positively
indicates that you have a problem, at this time. But, some
prevention does make sense. I hope that I have been helpful.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 6/10/2004
►
Check Valve?
Should there be a check valve,
installed between the natural gas heater and a built-in chlorinator? Why? The
chlorinator is after the heater and is last in line. Thanks.
Allen C., Toms River, NJ,
6/4/2003
Absolutely!
When the pump is running the chlorinated water is going into the pool.
When the pump is off, there is a possibility that water might back up from the
chlorinator into the heater. The water in the chlorinator can be quite
acidic, due to the nature of the trichlor tablets. If this water gets into
the copper heater core, it will cause corrosion.
Over time, the copper
coils can be completely destroyed. The installation of a check valve will
help prevent this from occurring. All or at least most of the heater
manufacturers recommend this type of device. I hope that I have been
helpful.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 6/4/2003
►
Check Valve
Requirements?
Hi Alan, I have a gas heater and my heat exchanger
just went out a few weeks ago (green corrosion). I replaced it. In case
this was caused by chlorine, I installed a check valve on the output between
the heater and my In-Line chlorinator. When I installed the check valve.
I was unable to install it per the instructions. The instructions say you need
18 inches of up flow after the check valve in order for the weight of the
water to keep the check valve closed. As you know, after the water leaves the
heater there is not normally an up flow (it is all down flow from there).
After 2 weeks of use, I pulled the return header off and found the new one is
turning green on the inside. I had my water tested and everything was
fine except hardness it was a little high (600ppm). But, the tap water in my
area is pretty hard so I don't think there is much I can do about that. I
doubt the hardness would cause the green corrosion anyway. So, my
conclusion is maybe even though the check valve is spring loaded, it may be
allowing the water to seep backwards due to there being a down flow. The only
solution I can figure out is, come out of the heater and turn straight up for
at least 18 inches. then turn straight down to get to my chlorinator. I don't
know if 18 inches of up flow would work followed by an immediate 30 inches of
down flow (This seems it might cause it to siphon). This does not seem like a
good solution. I would also consider changing out the chlorinator to an
off-line system, but I doubt that would help my situation. Do you have
any suggestions. Thanks so much.
Jamie L.,
9/5/2003
The green
corrosion is being used by low pH conditions in the presence of chlorine. If
your pool water has not been acidic for extended periods of time, that leaves
only the check valve and the backflow from the chlorinator as the possible
causes of the problem. Your solution seems to be workable. Any siphoning
that might be created would direct the water to the pool and that will protect
the heater from the corrosive backflow: the pool water being the lowest
point. The check valve manufacturer's recommendation makes sense for their
product and I suggest that you follow them. I hope that I have been of some
assistance.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 9/6/2003
►
Corrosive Causes?
Our inground pool is about 6
years old. On 7/16/03, a new heat exchanger was installed because of
corrosion (water was leaking out of the heater). On 8/8/03, our water was
tested and the pH was 7.4 - perfect. On 9/4/03, we called the pool company
because there was water coming out of our heater again. They came out on
9/8/03 and replaced the heat exchanger again (cost of $650 - total cost $1300
plus labor). They tested the water and the pH was 6.8. The weekend before we
had added water to the pool because it was getting a little low. We were told
by the manager of the pool company that the new heat exchanger was damaged
because of the pH being low. My question is, "Can a heat exchanger that
was installed on 7/16/03 become so corroded that it needs to be replaced less
than two months later?" A water test in August showed the pH level was
fine. Thanks!
Carol W., 9/10/2003
Evidently, the
answer must be yes! It happened and will probably happen again, unless
you eliminate the cause of the corrosion. I can give you a list of factors
to check. The solution will be with one or more of them. A pH of 6.8
is low, but not low enough to have caused the problem, by itself, in such a
short time. The addition of the water would not have caused the problem.
by itself. The pH must have been much lower at times.
Corrosion is
caused by low pH conditions in the presence of chlorine and/or bromine. In
order to maintain a proper pH of 7.2-7.6, it is important to have a total
alkalinity of 80-120 or possibly higher. Certainly not lower than 80 PPM.
Soft water can
add to the rate of corrosion. Check to see that your calcium hardness is
150-200 PPM. Higher readings will not add to the corrosion problem.
Past
experience leads me to suspect that you are using trichlor or bromine tablets in
a chlorinator. These products are quite acidic and will lower the pH.
Their use will probably require regular additions of pH increaser chemical.
Until you get a handle on the situation, I suggest that you test the pH every
day. The chlorinator, if it is built inline, must be placed after the
heater and be last in line. In addition to this many manufacturers
recommend that a flow check valve be place between the heater and the
chlorinator or brominator. This prevents the water from the inline feeder
from diffusing back into the heater, after the pump is shut off.
I suggest that
you check into these possibilities as soon as possible. In addition, the
copper that has been dissolved, should be treated by the addition of a metal
treatment. Add one dose for each 0.5 PPM. I hope that this
information will prove helpful. Let me know, what you discover.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 9/11/2003
►
Copper Corrosion?
After
dealing successfully with yellowish stains on the vinyl liner and rigid plastic
parts, we had our water chemistry just right except for a small hardness deficit
(but stable pH around 7.4 and alkalinity around 110) and we were in business.
Last week, we tired of how
cold it was and decided to turn on the three year old heater.. Also this
past week, since everything was OK with the water, I set the timer to run the
pump 18 hours/day instead of non-stop. This past Saturday, I realized that
the temperature was falling at times because heater was not running reliably and
replaced a faulty pressure switch, and this may have been the first time that
the heater began to cycle on and off normally. When mixing chemicals with
water to bring our hardness up on Saturday (or MAYBE it was when mixing chlorine
to shock; I’m not certain), I noted a brown tinge to the water and thought
little of it. By mid-day Sunday, we realized that the yellowish-brown
stains were returning to the liner and the water was taking on a vague aqua
color.
A water
test at the pool company revealed copper at 0.3 ppm and their suspicion is that
poor water maintenance by the previous owners (we just moved in this Spring)
caused heat exchanger damage. I know that the pH has not been below 7.2
since a few weeks ago when I exchanged most of the water to correct a high CYA,
followed by chelating agents to remove the severe staining that we started with.
The only thing I can’t prove is that no copper was left behind from the prior
treatment. My theory, consistent with your advice elsewhere on your web
site, is that the lack of a check valve between the heater and chlorine
dispenser is to blame. (Plumbing is skimmers-pump-DE
filter-heater-trichlor dispenser-return. The chlorinator is about a foot
below the heat exchanger; all equipment is at the deck level and therefore the
filter outlet and heat exchanger are about 2’ above the water level.)
The heater manufacturer's tech support is surprised that the heater lasted three
years without a check valve. But the pool installer, one of the largest in
the area, puts all their heaters in this way without problems, says that they
had too much trouble with check valves, and insists that poor water maintenance
in the past is by far the most likely culprit. We’ve never used any
algaecides. My question: If the copper heat exchanger had sustained
damage in the past from acidic water, could it still be putting copper into pH
7.4 water? Assuming the pool company is correct that relevant
back-siphoning of dispenser contents into the heater shouldn’t occur, is it
more likely that copper was left behind from the previous chelating treatment?
I did purge the filter as instructed after the treatment.
Nameless, 6/17/2003
The
copper could have come from the use, by the previous owners, of products such as
copper algaecides or winterizing. It could have come from corrosion of the
heater exchanger, due to acidic conditions. It could have come from there
being no check valve. The water analysis doesn't prove the source.
If you chelate copper, it doesn't leave the water. It can remain in the
pool water indefinitely, in a stable chelated form. If you have maintained
a pH in the ideal range, recent copper corrosion should not have occurred,
That is if there is a check valve! The heater works, the pool problems
are solved and it is time to enjoy the pool. Concentrate on what is ahead
and don't dwell on the past. I hope that I have been helpful.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 6/17/2003
►
Check Valve Ups & Downs?
Hi Alan, I have a heater and my heat exchanger
just went out a few weeks ago (green corrosion). I replaced it. Incase this
was caused by chlorine, I installed a check valve on the output between the
heater and my In-Line chlorinator. When I installed the check valve. I
was unable to install it per the instructions. The instructions say you need
18 inches of up flow after the check valve in order for the weight of the
water to keep the check valve closed. As you know, after the water leaves the
heater there is not normally an up flow (it is all down flow from there).
After 2 weeks of use, I pulled the return header off and found the new one is
turning green on the inside. I had my water tested and everything was fine
except hardness it was a little high (600ppm). But, the tap water in my area
is pretty hard so I don't think there is much I can do about that. I doubt the
hardness would cause the green corrosion anyway. So, my conclusion is maybe
even though the check valve is spring loaded, it may be allowing the water to
seep backwards due to there being a down flow. The only solution I can figure
out is, come out of the heater and turn straight up for at least 18 inches.
then turn straight down to get to my chlorinator. I don't know if 18 inches of
up flow would work followed by an immediate 30 inches of down flow This seems
it might cause it to siphon. This does not seem like a good solution.
I would also consider changing out the chlorinator to an off-line system, but
I doubt that would help my situation. Do you have any suggestions.
Thanks so much.
Jamie L., 9/5/2003
Siphoning
is not the issue. It is a closed loop system and there should be no
siphoning. The issue is making sure that the check valve is closed. That
is the purpose of the 18" inches of water. The weight of the water will
make sure the valve is closed. Otherwise, there may not be a functioning
check valve and the water from the chlorinator - high in chlorine and low in
pH - can diffuse into the heater by convection or due to density
differences and result in the type of corrosion that you are describing.
That is why a closed check valve is important. I hope that this clarifies
the issue and that the information has been helpful
Sincerely. Alan
Schuster, 9/6/2003
►
Solar
Heaters?
I live near Hartford
CT and am wondering if I can use solar energy to heat my 18,500 gallon inground
vinyl pool? How effective is it? Many thanks.
John S.,
6/20/2004
Solar
pool heaters will not keep the water warm enough in your
region, much beyond the normal pool opening and closing season. What it
will do is add up to 10ºF to the water temperature during the season and, perhaps,
increase your comfort factor. Using a solar blanket, in conjunction with a
solar pool heater, will make even more of a difference in the water
temperature. Once past the initial cost, the big advantage is that it is
free! An alternative to a solar cover is a
safety pool
cover. This type of cover can be rolled on or off, manually or
automatically and provides safety, reduces water loss and keep in the heat. Good luck. I hope that I have been helpful.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 6/20/2004
►
Solar Heater
Placement?
The home I lived in before I
moved to my current home had a solar heating system for the pool The
"collectors" were black PVC pipes set on a cement pad in the corner of our acre+
property. It was very good - to the point where we had to shut it down in the
summer because the pool got too hot! I am now currently considering the
same type of solar heating for my current home in Vero Beach, Florida. Can the
"collectors" be placed on a black-top or cement pad in the corner of our acre
property? The pad would be in the northwest corner with sun available the
entire day. There are no trees or house structures in the area. We have a
metal roof and do not want to fasten any type of solar collector to this roof.
Thanks for your help! Regards!
Dana C., Vero Beach, Florida, 5/16/2004
Solar panels
do not have to be placed on the roof. In many instances, it is just a
convenient location that does not consume backyard space. Solar panels can
be located on or near ground level. The important thing is the proper
exposure to the Sun. For information on
Sunheater Solar Heating Systems go to
www.smartpool.com
I hope that this information will help warm things up.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 5/16/2004
►
Keeping The Water
Warm?
I heard that there is a product
that you can add to the water that will help keep the temperature from dropping
at night. It that true.
Brenda, R.,
Michigan, 6/25/2003
Strange, but
true.
SolarPill is one
such product. The product works by forming a mono-molecular layer on the pool
surface and is used, at night, after the filter is turned off. Does it
work? In theory, if you reduce evaporation, you will reduce heat loss.
A better and reasonably inexpensive method of warming the pool water is the use
of a
solar pool heater.
There are solar pool heating kits that are
easy to install and reasonable in cost. To get the most efficiency out of a heater
in an area, such as yours, a solar blanket can be used, in conjunction with any
type of heater, to reduce night time heat
loss. These are plastic sheets (sized to completely cover the water) filled with air
bubbles, that are used as a cover on the pool surface.
Solar
blankets are not safety covers! Put it on after the pool is
finished for the day and take it off when you are about to resume swimming.
If left on during sunny periods, it will cause the pool temperature to rise
significantly. Reels are available to remove and store the solar blanket,
until it is used again.
Safety pool covers
are available that are either manual
or automatic and can help reduce heating costs or help keep unheated pool
warmer. Enjoy the summer.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 6/25/2003
►
Main Drain Opened Or Closed?
I enjoyed your website and
will save it for reference. Hopefully, not too often, as that would mean we
are having some problems. We just put in an inground pool this
summer with a heat pump. we are using the floating sun rings for heat
retention. we are loving swimming in it in the mild Florida winter. When
we questioned the installer, we were told to close the bottom drain while we
are heating it for better heat retention, but I couldn't find anything about
this in the manual. My husband doesn't think this sounds right so has it
half open. What do you recommend? Thanks very much!
B etty
in Florida, 1/12/2007
Warm
water rises and cooler water sinks! If you close the main drain, the
temperature differential, between the pool surface and pool floor will increase.
The shallow end and upper surface area will be warmer and the hopper will
definitely be cooler. No main drain might affect water clarity, sanitizing and
filtration effectiveness. At the end of the day, all the jumping into the pool
will probably stir things up and the differential will probably diminish. It is
really your call! Now you have the facts. I hope that this information
proves helpful.
Sincerely. Alan Schuster, 1/12/2007
►
A Heater In A
Shed?
Please answer this question. Can you put the
pool heater in a shed? Give the reasons why it isn't recommended and if
it can be done what are the things we need to do to insure proper safety and
good performance. Respond soon for the project has started and we need
to know.
Anonymous, 4/3/2003
I am not
qualified to answer this question. You should contact the heater
manufacturer and/or a licensed heating contractor. Pool heaters,
so far as I know are meant to be free standing and outdoors. Placement
in a shed would mean the heater would have to be vented and I have no idea
if that is possible or recommended or how it would impact safety or efficiency. In
addition, there could be local building code requirements, if the heater is
placed in a shed. You need answers, but I'm sorry that I can't be
more helpful.
Sincerely.
Alan Schuster, 4/3/2003
►
Solar Blanket
Considerations?
I have two questions I hope
you can help me with. My first question is, can you leave a solar blanket on a
pool for a couple of days when you are not going to be swimming? I have
been told that this will cause algae to grow. My second question is
pertaining to turning my heat pump off at night. In the day my water temperature is
81 degrees in the evening I turn my pump to low speed which means my heater
turns off. The morning temperature of my water is 77 degrees. Is it more
economical to keep the temperature at 81 or to reheat the pool 4 degrees?
Regards.
John, Toronto, Canada,
5/22/2004
There's no
reason that you can't leave the solar blanket in place for periods of time.
Just make sure that there are proper levels of sanitizer or there is a greater
possibility of algae growth due to the warmer water. I once left it on for
a week and returned to 93°F and no signs of algae. The warmer the water, the greater the difference between the water and ambient overnight air
temperature. In short, the warmer pool has more heat to lose. It
would be more efficient to leave the heat pump off, with or without a solar
cover. Enjoy the season.
Sincerely. Alan Schuster, 5/22/2004
►
A Heater For A Day?
I live in Ft. Lauderdale,
Florida and it's been a little chilly lately and I'm having a pool party for my
son. Is there a place that will heat your pool for a day? Thanks.
Gina J., Ft. Lauderdale, FL
2/21/2007
This is a first. I have never heard of it being done. It involves plumbing,
electrical works, permits, local codes, fueling, etc. I don't think it is
practical and that would explain why is not being done, at least to my
knowledge.
Good luck. Alan Schuster, 2/21/2007
Hi Alan. I did find a company in
Miami that is a mobile pool heating company. Thanks for your response.
Gina, 2/23/2007
I guess
everything is a business - especially in Florida! Glad to heat that you
were persistent. Have fun.
Regards.
Alan 2/23/2007
►
Of Mice & Heaters?
We live in Connecticut and have
a propane heater; obviously not used in the winter! This year I have twice
cleaned mice nests out of the heater. I read that the heater is designed
so mice do not go into it, but that is clearly not working. Do you know of
any product or method of keeping them out? The nest was in an obvious
place, but I wonder if they made it in the heat exchanger or something that
would be a real problem. People used to use moth balls to keep mice out of
enclosed spaces, but I do not know if the chemical in them would be corrosive to
the heater. I could put a product like a mice killer in there, but for all
I know that might just attract them. Any thoughts or experience with this
problem? Thanks!
Connecticut, 4/4/2007
Your question is too product specific and I am unable to answer it, completely.
I don't know what the inside of the heater is like. I would direct the question
to the manufacturer. I have been recommending mothballs to repel
snakes, snails and frogs, from the outdoor pool area, for some time now.
You shouldn't have to add them to the heater housing. Just place some around the
perimeter of the equipment. However, you will still have to worry about small
children or pets finding the mothballs. I hope that I have been helpful.
Sincerely. Alan Schuster, 4/4/2007
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